Thursday, December 01, 2005

Joist Span Tables

Ever wondered how far a timber joist will span before it starts to deflect noticeably? More than likely not. But if you are designing houses, extensions or loft conversions, it’s important stuff. You can look the info up on a Span Table (here’s the NHBC’s version).

So where do you find such a table? This information really ought to be in the public domain – i.e. available for free on some website – but it doesn’t appear to be. It’s not exactly a trade secret and I don’t think it has any valuable Intellectual Property Rights attached to it. But if you want to access the timber span tables, you have to pay.

What’s bizarre is that the span tables used to be embedded in the building regs, which are now in the public domain thanks to the internet. Get hold of a copy of the old Part A for England & Wales and there they are, in Appendix A, a 28-page blockbuster which covered every conceivable timber span you could ever think of, from humble floor joists to rafters and purlins.

But the new improved Part A, 2004 version, has seen fit to eliminate this useful information. Clause 2B1 states: Guidance on the sizing of certain members in floors and roofs is given in "Span tables for solid timber members in floors, ceilings and roofs (excluding trussed rafter roofs) for dwellings”, published by TRADA, available from Chiltern House, Stocking Lane, Hughenden Valley, High Wycombe, HP14 4ND, Bucks.

Very nice for TRADA who charge £17.50 for their span table booklet. You can find simplified versions of the span tables in the NHBC Handbook, which is also available at a price of £35, but obviously includes far more information than just timber span tables.

But it begs the question, why remove something useful from the public domain? What harm is it to have the span tables available for free?

STOP PRESS
Have just checked the ODPM building regs website and the 1992 edition of Part A is still available for free download, complete with the Span Table Appendix. So hurry and get yours before they hit the delete button.

If you can’t be arsed to wade through page after page of boring tables, here’s a really useful nugget you might care to remember. Halve the depth of the joist in inches and you get the span of the joist in metres. Thus a 9” joist will happily span 4.5m. And a 3.5m span will require at least 7” joists. Now you don’t even need a span table.

25 Comments:

Blogger Paul Gray said...

Funny, I was just doing exactly the same thing and eventually ended up at the TRADA web site. Just emailed them, cc ODPM, asking why in this period of freedom of information, they have taken such a backwards step? - As Mark quite rightly states they now charge for information which at one time was freely available to all.

Watch this space for any feedback from the ODPM and or TRADA.

Paul Gray

5:46 PM  
Blogger Munki said...

Just a word to say that the 'nugget' given here is one of fool's gold.

It has been known for many centuries that the safe span for any member of rectangularly sectioned, reasonably homogenous material (like timber) depends on a) its section size (which includes its width, would you believe?) and b) its loading (thus logically involving its pitch). For example, from the 'old' Table A1, a 9" joist, at 1.5" wide, at 600mm crs, will span 2.92m in the most onerous loading case. Yet by this nugget of a rule of thumb, a 9" joist can span 4.5m?

Er, I don't think so.

Mick

PS The only rule of thumb I use is to avoid rules of thumb (certainly where safety is concerned).

4:31 PM  
Blogger scone said...

if you want tables try this link

be quick because I don't think trada will be happy

http://bauing.f2.fhtw-berlin.de/lehre/professoren/damm/conrem/Timberdesingtables.pdf

7:28 PM  
Blogger scone said...

again


http://bauing.f2.fhtw-berlin.de/lehre/professoren
/damm/conrem/Timberdesingtables

7:37 PM  
Blogger Valentina said...

Well Munki, you chose the worst loading a thin joist and the biggest centres. I think the original rule of thumb was designed for 50mm wide joists at 400 c/c with typical domestic floor loading ie 1.5-2.0 KN/m2. Like all rules of thumb, of course it falls down if you try and introduce the fingers as well! I would advise anyone to consult a structural engineer if they in doubt, but plenty of safe timber buildings have been built without them.

Thanks for the link Scone. That will stop the greedy little profit mongers in their tracks for a while :)

3:28 PM  
Blogger Jon said...

I have also been through the process of Building Regs, TRADA website to find out that the load span tables are not freely available. I have now printed them from the website supplied by scone. Many thanks to all of you for the help.
Jon

2:13 PM  
Blogger Jon said...

I have also been through the process of Building Regs and TRADA website to discover that payment is required from TRADA for the load span tables. I have now downloaded the tables from the link supplied by Scone. Many thanks to you all for the help.
Regards
Jon

2:19 PM  
Blogger Jon said...

I have also been through the process of Building Regs and TRADA website to discover that payment is required from TRADA for the load span tables. I have now downloaded the tables from the link supplied by Scone. Many thanks to you all for the help.
Regards
Jon

2:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The link is broken now... my email is regkey@yahoo.com if anyone is feeling generous.

You might find it cached in HTML somewhere ;)

2:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What great humour we all have in this crappy world where every1 just wants to make money and not give something back...like beautyful buildings and time. Thats the 1 thing you cant buy..time. many thanks 4 the info. Anyone got the same details for steel rsjs ??

Berkeley

11:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Such a shame.

I kust purchased the span tables from TRADA.

Get it while you can.

Sandeep

11:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone know the dead and imposed loads for floorings, ceilings, rafters, and flat roofs
All on domestic properties?

Many thanks.

Sandeep

11:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

scone your a diamond...
good luck everyone and if anyones lookin for a technician in london then let me know. samalexfitzgerald@yahoo.co.uk

9:46 AM  
Anonymous Peto said...

scone yor a star sir saved me a whole bunch of effort with them handy tables hey links stilll working by the way as of today anyway

6:54 PM  
Anonymous Bert said...

Have just found the 'Span tables for solid timber members' in Buiding Regulations Table A1 at www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/load-bearing_walls.htm as it has disappeared from the DPM's site.

Bert

10:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks for the links for the spanning tables! Brilliant! Keep up the good work!

10:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the span tables! Very much appreciated.

12:34 PM  
Anonymous badge13 said...

Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou for the link.
and ditto for the website

6:24 PM  
Anonymous rollingshock said...

Thanks for that link!!

5:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the span tables scone, great link. Duly printed off before they become the darks arts of the achitects' knowledge.

10:31 PM  
Anonymous hayd said...

Anyone able to tell me how to work out a max span on a floor if you drop the centres to 200mm ?

6:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Top man Scone - Link still working as of 1/05/08

1:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the link Scone.
TRADA information is difficult to get without paying for! If anyone else has any good downloads, post it here please.

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice one, link still working 27/05/08...

1:37 PM  
Blogger bubbatim said...

I couldn't get the link to work :-(